Why 24fps is not enough for HDR movies

[Rasmus Larsen]

The subject of TV manufacturers' market share is often brought up so I thought I'd share this graph.



Note that it only includes LCD TVs, which make up the majority of the TV market. Plasma never had a significant share and OLED is even lower (but growing and predicted to become more significant).

A few other observations:
- Panasonic fell out of top-10 in 2016.
- TCL, Hisense, Skyworth, Chanhong & Haier are growing mostly due to a booming market in China.

[Rasmus Larsen]

An estimated 229 million TVs will be sold in 2017.

[Kuschelmonschter]

Have been looking for such a chart for a very long time. Very interesting. Thanks.

Any explanation as to why Sony lost so much share? I mean it does not really come as a surprise to me when I look at my Sony Android TV... Seems like people indeed do care about more than just image quality...

[Rasmus Larsen]

Your guess is as good as mine but I think Sony has just stumbled in the mid-range segment. That's where the mass market is, and Sony simply cannot sell at the same prices as Samsung and LG that both produce panels in-house.

[Perljack]

Wow, Samsung is in a better position than I assumed. How have they managed to extend their lead despite the curved television fad??

[franco.bluto]

Aside from viable competition in all the TV Set market tiers for the Sony Bravia TV subsidiary and no panel FABS,parent co. Sony corp. is nearly broke anyway and the long term outlook for Sony corp. and Sony Bravia TV subsidiarity is doubtful or at least difficult after decades of Sony corp. poor management , unfavorable currency exchange rates ,favorably priced competition and supporting & subsidizing a failing Sony Pictures movie and TV studio from any profits some of the Sony corp. divisions make with the corporate shell games there .

All the below probably was not helping Sony TV's either and the reason it is in this thread subject but one may stop reading here if they don't want the anecdotal storys below ,

The crummy or at least not so good performing 2016 Sony Bravia TV product lines almost end to end probably was not a boon for Sonys reputation like the IPS panel TV's there but much improved for 2017 with mostly VA panels and better LED lighting .

The 2012 ~2016 Sony TV LCD panel quality control in general wasn't all that with maybe a couple of exceptions noting Sony or Foxconn for Sony often assembles LCD panel cells into the complete TV panels and notably on Triluminos panels .

My bad if you care to read it :

My 2013 Sony Bravia 40R450A required new LED lamps in the panel inside of two years, new salvage parts were $20.00 on Ebay and my time .

Same thing with my 2015 Sony 4K HDR UN 55X850C for the new salvage LED bar in the panel ,new salvage Mainboard and the PSU/LD board repairs I did here when it ultimately went dark after a progression of symptoms ,parts total ~$175.00 ,no used parts . Both TV would be cost prohibitive to have repaired .

I think both TV's have at least poor thermal design but neither TV was competitive performance wise around thier price tiers in that neither TV could get nearly as bright as competing Samsung or even close .

The Sony 55X850C is in the family cinema room now and my significantly better , 3.515 x brighter 2016 Samsung QDOT SUHD 4K HDR 1000 UN55KS8000/800D Costco model is fully DIY electronically calibrated and a much better TV on the wall in here than the X850C was .

Note in fairness a 2016 Samsung KS 8000 and the flagship tier panel was a model tier or two above a 2015 Sony X850C (X85C ) or any 8. series Sony TV product even today that are all mid range even the decent performing Sony X900E .

I probably will not buy another Sony TV soon even though the 2017 Sony X930E looks real decent and bright after being a 25 year Sony customer,



In contrast to my only ~420 NIT edge bleeding monter panel mid range 2015 Sony X850C my retina searing bright + ultra back 2016 Samsung QDOT UN 55 KS 8000/800D binned for a Samsung FA01 ultra panel can change night into day in a dark room figuratively speaking where the Sony's here could have been significantly brighter and better at low intensity detail and black crush and the blacks all around and the 55X850 is an edge bleed monster even with the best of them trus`me .

The Sony X850C Andoid platform is intolerably slow and unstable but probably not as bad as the low tech VIzio rubbish any bluetooth TV and a phone can do .

The premium 2016 model tier Samung KS8000 /800D has exceeded all my Smart TV platform and LCD TV image expectations after the Sony TV's above,

That said my Sony X850C Triluminos WCG 4K HDR processing TV is an decent wide color 4K SDR TV but not terribly bright at all as long as it stays working /

Samsung seems to be more innovative in some areas today ,the 3x515 brighter Samsung KS8000 runs way cooler at the bottom vents than my Same size Sony X85C that was borderline can burn you there and it has decent 2.1 speakers in a max thick 1.7" TV and the performance build quality ,fit and finish all around on the premium tier 2016 KS 8000 is way better than my mid range Sony X850C . ,No bore mid range product in here ,ther is big difference when you move up like the premium Sony ES 7.1 AVR in her in my inner sanctum to regular Sony AVR .

That said my 4K 'HDR 420 NIT' 2015 Sony UN 55 X850C was significantly less expensive than a better & significantly brighter 2015 Samsung SUHD JS 8000 or 8500 and that made a Sony X85C a legitimate value play in that respect aside from any repairs on my Sony 55X850C TV that may be out of the mean and average.

The 2013 Sony Bravia 40R450A was rubbish end to end like mine with a cheap 60Hz 6 bit + frc dither panel that can not make 200 NITS NIB or accurate colors, it had a cheap Mediatek video processor too not the Sony reality pro they had in the beter 2013 Sony TV's and it was priced like a Sony not the rubbish it was .

I screwed the pooch not exchanging that one and trying to chase accurate color , low intensity details ,brightness and the mpeg artifacts anytime a source ,scene ,picture mode or channel changed it was terrible and reviewed much better than it ever was even after a conforming calibration here .it should have been slammed in the reviews like they did at HDTVtest co. I did not see before that mistake

[franco.bluto]

Wow, Samsung is in a better position than I assumed. How have they managed to extend their lead despite the curved television fad??

Curved TV has nothing much to do with market share, Samsung passed up Sony a long time ago before curved Samsung TV and unit sales of curved TV's are insignificant here.

Samsung is often more inventive than anyone like bringing us 4K HDR retail TV first and wholly HDR 10 and HDR 10+ .

Todays Sony TV is not so innovative outside of thier premium active edge dimming just sometimes expensive to make or buy or using existing technology anyway .

The new Sony 4K HDR Processor X1™ Extreme is just a decent object oriented dual data base TV /video processor like PC d/GPU and API can do for eons but not as good as Samsung currently or my equally well upscaling 2016 Samsung 4K HDR 1000 UN 55 KS8000 that is significantly better than any Sony TV on our usual mpeg compressed TV and IPTV services and those digital artifacts cleaning where it really counts unless you watch blu rays all day ,the difference here is striking .

I have a 55" 4K HDR Sony Triluminos in the family cinema and the better Samung in my inner sanctum . Both have have conforming electronic panel calibrations I did to each room and the variables .


Samsung has Silicon Fabs ,panel fabs ,The largest flash memory & better smartphone producer , Samsung group is the largest ship and skyscraper builder and so on ,they have lots of cash and engineering and all of Sony is insignificant by scale to Samsung or LG groups .

Cash rich Samsung electronics alone is 6X bigger than all of virtually broke Sony corp., Sony pictures and by implication the cash poor Sony Bravia TV owned subsidiary. Samsing visual makes LCD TV and other panels too .

Samsung visual & TV's will probably be the first out with new Micro LED panels along with big player Hisense via an alliance with Samsung .

"Samsung acquired QD Vision, the US-based provider of quantum dot technology for consumer displays. QD Vision's technology works in a different manner from from conventional & costly FALD HDR LCD TV's"
-anandtech-


I don't think Sony corp. can cost scale or afford a Sony CLEDIS Micro LED TV panel fab.

Micro LED will make everything else including Samsung QLED LCD and OLED today pale in comparison it's an emissive panel without OLED drawbacks or limitations.

Maybe the only reason much larger and cash rich LG and Samsung have not run Sony TV out of business at any scale like TCL and or Hisense may do is they hav a panel customer there and don't want legal antitrust monopoly exposure in the UE and USA .

Samsung TV's in any given model year or model tier may be better that a Sony TV and have been for some years prior to 2017 with finally some decent Sony Bravia TV's as opposed to what they had.

LG is the better performing OLED TV and Sony A1E OLED has an LG OLED panel anyway and it costs too much for what it is like 9ZD LCD .

Sony Bravia TV dubiderary simply is not the same Sony that brought us decades of innovation since the Sony TRinitron screen grid CRT and Wega FD Tubes and Sony was late and tepid getting to LCD TV's and OLED .

I owned decent Sony TV's for 25 years and never a malfunction .

My 2013 1080p Sony and 2015 4K HDR Sony's were cost prohibitive to repair inside of two years outside doing it myself with broken screen salvage parts here which I did .

[franco.bluto]

The subject of TV manufacturers' market share is often brought up so I thought I'd share this graph.


- Panasonic fell out of top-10 in 2016.
- TCL, Hisense, Skyworth, Chanhong & Haier are growing mostly due to a booming market in China.

Word is TCL, Hisense and eventually Foxconn using thier owned subsidiary Sharp Display for TV panels and the TV panel volume they suddenly no longer sell Samsung electronics in a strategic move will be growing to significant scale in the USA TV markets , and a 20M global annual Foxconn TV commitment within 5 years of now , any of them have the muscle for the moves without the others and may maul Vizio and some others .

An emerging middle class in 1.34 billion population India has the largest long term growth potential for many products and TVs at a scale far beyond the America's , EU, UK ,USA ,Arab ,Eurasia ,African continent regions and the Pacific rim outside of India and maybe more than an aging China population and unnaturally skewed male /female population ratio from the PRC Government childbirth restrictions from 1979 until January 2016 and generally lower birth rates now .

According to the Chinese government, 400 million births were prevented.so thats potentially well into the billions at some point ,by now or soon

India is where the smart money is going or will be and some of mine definitely , maybe at least in a diversified platinum balance Indian fund or US brokerage managed Indian funds and ofc some of my usual day trading !

Vizio OD TV product strategic outlook with all that isn't good in the savvy investment community given the others have TV plants , scale , cash ,CAPEX and at least two have panel fabs and nobody wanted Vizio LLC or a Vizio IPO when it was recently shopped around by the principals but the Broke LE Eco LLC at a leveraged buyout commitment Le Eco could not get funded for a related post sale Vizio IPO - Le Eco cash grab that never happened ,

The whole Le Eco - Vizio thing was a train wreck even at the proposals & prospectus talking points for any savvy investor and I will add to that a Vizio IPO today