Why 24fps is not enough for HDR movies

[Rasmus Larsen]

First of all, thanks for your excellent review. I am really tempted to get the G10 once my retailer receives the 50 inch model.

I have read mixed observations of the 24p playback. Some owners of the EU-version of G10 say there is a clear judder for example when watching blu-ray movies with PS3, but on the other hand you did not seem to notice any problems. Can you check what is the software version of your review unit and was it the EU-model TX-P42G10(E)?

Yeah, there seems to be mixed reports. No problems here, however. No flickering or juddering.

I can't, sorry. I have returned the TV. But it was the EU model called TX-P42G10E.

[Rasmus Larsen]

@Rasmus: thx for the review, and, excuses for mine poor english.

Question: can i also use your settings(those after the calibration) for the tx-46G10 ? Does the size of the plasma make any difference?

Will those settings also work at daytime in a bright room?

Sander.

Yeah, you should be able to use the same settings for your 46-inch model. Maybe the RGB (red, green, blue) settings have to changed somehow, though.

For bright rooms I suggest that you increase the brightness of the panel a little. But besides that the same settings should apply

[Stoykata]

Dear Rasmus,

Thanks for this review and keep up with the good work!

Two questions regarding your calibration settings:
After calibration
Profile: Cinema
Contrast 36
Lys: 0
Colour: 30

What does "Lys" mean here? (Sorry, my PX80 doesn't have such setting)
And what about the Brightness? Not included in your table means it is without changes?

Best regards

[Rasmus Larsen]

Stoykata Sorry, that a translation typo. Lys means Brightness in Danish. I have changed it in the review text.

[carlocatt]

Thank you Rasmus for the review.
Do you think that the same comments may apply to the P50G10B? Any idea on the TV settings?

Thanks,

[Rasmus Larsen]

carlocatt: Yeah, they should apply to the 50-inch as well.

About TV settings you could probably activate some of the noise filters but it depends on your signal. If you have a digital TV signal you should keep down sharpness and noise filters.
For daytime viewing you could increase Brightness a little.

[danji]

flo: The 24p was very smooth. It seems that G10 refresh at 48Hz so I experienced no stuttering of the signal (no pulldown).

Hi Rasmus.

Thanx for the great review. Are you sure it is 2:2 pulldown and not 4:4 pulldown? Googling around seems to suggest that the TC (or US) models do 2:2 but the TX does 4:4, i.e. 96 Hz. I am having difficulty acually confirming that 2:3 pulldown is bypassed for true 24p, but if you see no stuttering, then I trust your expertise. But it would be nice to have confirmation if it is 48 Hz or 96 Hz.

It also seems that the TC model has an option to set either 48 Hz or 60 Hz update, the latter using 2:3 pulldown. Does the TX models have this possiblity? I did not see it, but maybe because I didn't look for it.

On a separate note, did you notice any unregular color reproduction? I have seen three models, that, when checking for pixels errors using plain R/G/B full screen images, that the color level wasn't constant. The brightness of e.g. full red would change a bit every second or so (not evenly at 1 Hz).

Thanks for your time and expertise on these matters. It is greatly appreciated.

BR dan.

[verrando]

verrando: Yes I noticed this as well. It seems different. It might be because I have a Scandinavian model.

Did you set gamma at 2.0 or 2.2 after calibration?

I set gamma at 2.2, it gives an average of slightly less than 2.3 on my set: this is actually quite close to what I was looking for (halfway between the 2.22 and 2.35 recommendations).

[Rasmus Larsen]

Thanx for the great review. Are you sure it is 2:2 pulldown and not 4:4 pulldown? Googling around seems to suggest that the TC (or US) models do 2:2 but the TX does 4:4, i.e. 96 Hz. I am having difficulty acually confirming that 2:3 pulldown is bypassed for true 24p, but if you see no stuttering, then I trust your expertise. But it would be nice to have confirmation if it is 48 Hz or 96 Hz.

It also seems that the TC model has an option to set either 48 Hz or 60 Hz update, the latter using 2:3 pulldown. Does the TX models have this possiblity? I did not see it, but maybe because I didn't look for it.

On a separate note, did you notice any unregular color reproduction? I have seen three models, that, when checking for pixels errors using plain R/G/B full screen images, that the color level wasn't constant. The brightness of e.g. full red would change a bit every second or so (not evenly at 1 Hz).

Hi Dan

Yeah, you're right. It uses a 4:4 pulldown on the EU (TX) model. Sorry about the mistake earlier. As said I did not notice any flicker because of a low frame rate or any stuttering.
We have some report in Denmark about some EU models not supporting 1080p24, though. It seems to have something to do with the firmware version.

No, didn't see any 60 Hz option. I do not have the TV here anymore. =(

No, I did not see any problems with full red but some colours suffer from the dithering issue which is general on plasma panels. Are you sure that this is not because the store has changed the RGB settings to get an "off-red" requiring dithering? Or maybe because of the noise/dynamic circuits?

[danji]

No, I did not see any problems with full red but some colours suffer from the dithering issue which is general on plasma panels. Are you sure that this is not because the store has changed the RGB settings to get an "off-red" requiring dithering? Or maybe because of the noise/dynamic circuits?

I am sure that it is not due to the store settings. We opened the box of two G10s together, to allow me to check for the pixel errors. So it was with the standard factory settings.

Don't know exactly what you mean by noise/dynamic circuits. If it is caused by electrical noise in the circuitry, it would be a disaster, since it is a design flaw in the TV. But the low frequency would rather suggest that it might be C.A.T.S or other image processing that is performing badly.

[Rasmus Larsen]

I am sure that it is not due to the store settings. We opened the box of two G10s together, to allow me to check for the pixel errors. So it was with the standard factory settings.

Don't know exactly what you mean by noise/dynamic circuits. If it is caused by electrical noise in the circuitry, it would be a disaster, since it is a design flaw in the TV. But the low frequency would rather suggest that it might be C.A.T.S or other image processing that is performing badly.

I meant dithering or dynamic circuits (altering image processing circuits) like you also talk about. Have you tried testing with the red screen on a calibrated G10? And tried turning some of the image settings off? I don't know why, but I actually had to do a complete calibration on another set instead of the sample G10 I received at first. Settings in the service menu seemed to vary a lot. Probably because the first one was a “demo-sample” thing. I didn’t experience this issue on any of these two, however, but it might be because they had different firmware or service menu settings.

[anpe008]

First of all, thanks a lot for the page and the really detailed reviews. It helps a lot.

You mentioned in the review that the G15 has the Viaera Cast + DLNA function.
My question is what types of pics/music and - most importantly - videos does the G15 DLNA support? I have lot of MKV file and I want to stream them from my NAS to the TV via erthernet, using Twonky or the built-in media (if there is any).

I really like the G15. But I cant decide between the 46G15 and Samsung 46-52B650/750. The Samsung one supports mkv files, that is important for me.

Thanks in advance.

Bests,
anpe008

[Roigen]

Hi Rasmus.

Thanks for the review. I do have a couple of questions though.

My 42G10E does not inform me of a 24p/1080p signal coming into the TV even when 24p is enabled in my PS3. It only says 1080p. Is it possible that the TV is still interpreting and displaying 24p correctly, even when it gives no separate indication of doing so?

And the other question is regarding your colour calibration. Did you calibrate partly in the service menu to offset the colour values you have given in the review?

Thank you already

[Rasmus Larsen]

First of all, thanks a lot for the page and the really detailed reviews. It helps a lot.

You mentioned in the review that the G15 has the Viaera Cast + DLNA function.
My question is what types of pics/music and - most importantly - videos does the G15 DLNA support? I have lot of MKV file and I want to stream them from my NAS to the TV via erthernet, using Twonky or the built-in media (if there is any).

I really like the G15. But I cant decide between the 46G15 and Samsung 46-52B650/750. The Samsung one supports mkv files, that is important for me.

Thanks in advance.

Bests,
anpe008

You can read more about this in our V10 review on the front page.

[Rasmus Larsen]

Hi Rasmus.

Thanks for the review. I do have a couple of questions though.

My 42G10E does not inform me of a 24p/1080p signal coming into the TV even when 24p is enabled in my PS3. It only says 1080p. Is it possible that the TV is still interpreting and displaying 24p correctly, even when it gives no separate indication of doing so?

And the other question is regarding your colour calibration. Did you calibrate partly in the service menu to offset the colour values you have given in the review?

Thank you already

Some G10's have 1080p24 problems so I guees that if you're experiencing problems playing 1080p24 material you're probably one of the unlucky ones. Actually I can't remember if the G10 told me the input Hz or not. Sorry.

Nope, everything is done from the users menus. I want to be able to talk about actual picture quality that consumers can obtain instead of some theoretical picture quality that most users never will get unless they hire a professional video guy. That's why we release our settings as well.