A chance to talk to FlatpanelsHD's reviewers.
User avatar
By Rasmus Larsen
#6903 The Eizo Foris FG2421 review is now online. FG2421 is the first of its kind with a 240 Hz quality VA panels (120 Hz input and 120 Hz black frame insertion). Can it take PC gaming to the next level?
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php? ... 1383107475

If you have questions please use this thread.

Enjoy.
By Jungl3J1m
#6904 This is what I have been waiting for for ages! Well, close to it anyway...

I am a casual to slightly serious gamer but I also use my PC for work so need a monitor that is good for gaming but also has the resolution for office tasks and programming. I have been waiting for 120Hz IPS/PLS/VA monitors for over a year. If only this was higher than 1080p! It can be done as proved by the likes of Catleap/QNIX/Overlord.

Hopefully this will cause some of the other big players in the monitor market to release something similar or better...

J.
By mdrejhon
#6905
Rasmus Larsen wrote:The Eizo Foris FG2421 review is now online. FG2421 is the first of its kind with a 240 Hz quality VA panels (120 Hz input and 120 Hz black frame insertion). Can it take PC gaming to the next level?
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php? ... 83107475#6
Good to know that more monitors use strobe backlights now!
Have you heard of the popularity of LightBoost's method of strobing? It has been commonly used as an unofficial strobe backlight since late 2012 by Counterstrike players, Battlefield 3 players. Google "LightBoost", or "LightBoost media coverage".

Eizo is the first one to _officially_ bring a modern (high-efficiency) strobe backlight to computer monitors, in an official manner aimed at 2D motion blur reduction, rather than having 2D blur reduction as an unofficial secondary feature of 3D crosstalk reduction.

Questions about FG2421

1. When you view a controlled motion test such as http://www.testufo.com and http://www.testufo.com/photo on your FG2421, how many % less motion blur do you see, when turning on Turbo240? TestUFO has several selectable tests at the upper-right corner.

2. LightBoost users know that reducing brightness also increases motion clarity (due to shorter persistence -- shorter strobe lengths). When you reduce brightness during Turbo240, do you see motion clarity improve further when viewing controlled motion tests?

3. If you have a LightBoost monitor, does Turbo240 have more motion blur or less motion blur than LightBoost?
(Google "list of 120Hz monitors" to find a list of supported LightBoost monitors, and a link to instructions on enabling the undocumented strobe backlight mode).
By neel
#6906 I feel sad viewing angles are not that good. This is the main reason I choose this kind of panel.

How does FG2421 compares with FS2333 in this area ? (owning this one currently, and satisfied with its viewing angles but not with ghosting on fast moves, even just for browser srolling. Not talking about fast games)

ps: your reviews and articles are great ! Continue the job :)
User avatar
By Rasmus Larsen
#6912
Jungl3J1m wrote:I am a casual to slightly serious gamer but I also use my PC for work so need a monitor that is good for gaming but also has the resolution for office tasks and programming....

Hopefully this will cause some of the other big players in the monitor market to release something similar or better...


Yeah, 1080p is not much for office tasks and programming. I've replaced my normal 27" 16:10 monitor with this Eizo for some of my "daily use" tests, and kept my normal 24" 16:10 as the second monitor (to compare the two sizes), and I certainly miss the higher resolution of the 27" monitor. But again, this is an interesting step and with the new generation of signal interfaces I'm sure we'll see higher-resolution 120 Hz monitors.
User avatar
By Rasmus Larsen
#6913 mdrejhon: Sure, I know LightBoost, but I don't have one to to do side-by-side comparisons with in the office at the moment. Sorry.

1. I'll check when I return to the testing room.

2. It's the same with FG2421, yeah. I don't use a high-speed video camera, but took multiple very quick shots with a still camera. But even at 100 % brightness the FG2421 only comes to a bit above 200 cd/m2. If you play games in a dark room you can probably go lower, but I wouldn’t recommend going too low just to squeeze out the last percent. In practical use I didn't see a meaningful difference (but I'm not a hardcore gamer either), but sure, you can measure these things.

I should receive the 144 Hz version of BenQ'S XL2420 so hopefully I can do some comparisons, but I'm not sure it will arrive before the FG2421 is passed on.
User avatar
By Rasmus Larsen
#6914
neel wrote:How does FG2421 compares with FS2333 in this area ? (owning this one currently, and satisfied with its viewing angles but not with ghosting on fast moves, even just for browser srolling. Not talking about fast games)


Thanks :)

The FS2333 is certainly better in this regard. FS2333 has some viewing angle issues with contrast, but FG2421 has more noticeable color washout, and washout of the dark grey tones. If your reference is FS2333 at the moment you will definitely see the FG2421 as a step or two in the wrong direction.

No perfect monitor yet, unfortunately :)
By neel
#6915 My main concern with viewing angles is to not see color/brightness variations when I replace myself on my chair (to avoid body tiredness), or do some normal head movements.

I have no problem like this with the fs2333 but I clearly see it with a samsung BX2450L, for example (unbearable with this monitor).
As long as I don't have this kind of issue with this FG2421 it would be ok for me. What do you think ?


Also I set my lcd at very low brightnss compared to what you seem used to in your reviews. My fs2333 is set at 10% brightness (with user1, [email protected], [email protected] I have now set this mode as you did after calibration in your fs2333 review and have set brightness to 13 to compensate the lower RGB values. Still a way lower brightness value than what you seem to use).

Would that a low brightness setting affect the 240hz mode efficiency in term of ghosting reduction ?
By mdrejhon
#6917
Rasmus Larsen wrote:mdrejhon: Sure, I know LightBoost, but I don't have one to to do side-by-side comparisons with in the office at the moment. Sorry.

1. I'll check when I return to the testing room.
Great, let us know!

Rasmus Larsen wrote:2. It's the same with FG2421, yeah. I don't use a high-speed video camera, but took multiple very quick shots with a still camera. But even at 100 % brightness the FG2421 only comes to a bit above 200 cd/m2. If you play games in a dark room you can probably go lower, but I wouldn’t recommend going too low just to squeeze out the last percent. In practical use I didn't see a meaningful difference (but I'm not a hardcore gamer either), but sure, you can measure these things.
Monitors are often too bright for my eyes, and we often game at night anyway. The perfect brightness for my eyes is 50cd/m2. So some of us might as well take advantage of the best motion blur reducing mode, e.g. if lowering brightness during Turbo240 also reduces motion blur, like lowering LightBoost brightness does.

(Interesting fact: Shorter strobes also bypass more of the VA overdrive ghosting too, so ghosting artifacts *might* go down very slightly in http://www.testufo.com/ghosting when adjusting to dimmer brightness)

Rasmus Larsen wrote:I should receive the 144 Hz version of BenQ'S XL2420 so hopefully I can do some comparisons, but I'm not sure it will arrive before the FG2421 is passed on.
Check out the XL2720Z too, it also uses an official strobe backlight too (BENQ Motion Blur Reduction), unlike LightBoost which is semi-unofficial.
By aufkrawall
#6918 Thank you for the review.
Did I get it right that the input lag can be noticible higher compared to other fast LCD monitors?
Did you try without black frames? According to Eizo, it should lower input lag by 10ms.
The "bad" viewing angles aren't really an issue while gaming, right?
By HonoredShadow
#6919 Viewing angles are something that should not bother gamers. They sit right in front of the panel.

But what does concern me is the input lag. What is the input lag on this monitor please? With or without black frames being added makes a difference?

Also if it is 10ms is that even noticeable?

http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/monit...o-foris-fg2421
Lastly the review above stated "The FG2421 uses a VA panel, and VA panels typically display less accurate colours than other types of panel technology, but much deeper blacks. "

The colours are not as good as IPS? I thought the colours were meant to be great on these types of monitors. As good as IPS but much better than TN. Now I'm confused.
By neel
#6920 As already answered in the other forum, beside eyefinity/surround even a simple screen gamer doesn't use his screen for gaming and only gaming. Most of them also use it for web browsing, at least.

So a gaming monitor is not a monitor for gaming only. When we buy such a monitor, the majority of us buy a monitor "capable of" gaming.

So viewing angle is important to anyone who his sensitive to the negative effects induced by bad viewing angle, even for a "gaming" monitor.
User avatar
By Rasmus Larsen
#6922
neel wrote:My main concern with viewing angles is to not see color/brightness variations when I replace myself on my chair (to avoid body tiredness), or do some normal head movements.
...
As long as I don't have this kind of issue with this FG2421 it would be ok for me. What do you think ?


I noticed it when moving from side to side, but only on the darker grey colors in tweetdeck. Besides that I didn't really notice it when just sitting at my chair. But I can imagine that it could be a problem when using two FG2421 monitors in a multi-screen setup.


neel wrote:Would that a low brightness setting affect the 240hz mode efficiency in term of ghosting reduction ?


That still works, but I don't think you will run the FG2421 at 10 % with Turbo240 activated. It's too dark, even if you prefer low brightness. But the black frame insertion still serves it purpose. The black frames are meant to "reset" your eyes constantly. Eyes (or the brain) has a minor image retention mechanism, which the black frames can affect.
User avatar
By Rasmus Larsen
#6923
aufkrawall wrote:Did I get it right that the input lag can be noticible higher compared to other fast LCD monitors?
Did you try without black frames? According to Eizo, it should lower input lag by 10ms.
The "bad" viewing angles aren't really an issue while gaming, right?


I don't think it was noticeable during gaming, no, but it was not zero in measurements. I'm guessing that the 240 Hz involves a little bit of processing that adds a few ms of input lag. Even without Turbo240 activated the panel is still driven at 240 Hz, so it still has the same processing system running. I didn't notice a difference with and without the system during my gaming sessions.

Not really, no. But as said before, I imagine that it could be a problem with multi-screen setups. But as always, some people of more discerning than others, so I cannot guarantee that it won't bother you :)
User avatar
By Rasmus Larsen
#6924
HonoredShadow wrote:But what does concern me is the input lag. What is the input lag on this monitor please? With or without black frames being added makes a difference?


See my previous post. :)

HonoredShadow wrote:http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/monit...o-foris-fg2421
Lastly the review above stated "The FG2421 uses a VA panel, and VA panels typically display less accurate colours than other types of panel technology, but much deeper blacks. "

The colours are not as good as IPS? I thought the colours were meant to be great on these types of monitors. As good as IPS but much better than TN. Now I'm confused.


I can't answer for them, but some VA panels are also used in graphics monitors. They have some 0-degree issues with shadow detailing as discussed in out review, but besides that they can reproduce more or less as accurate colors as IPS panels. None of them are perfect, and as you know most monitors are still operating with 8-bit colors per channel.

Both are definitely far superior to TN.