A chance to talk to FlatpanelsHD's reviewers.
By Perljack
#7362 I noticed that a few updates for Sony's Android TV have been released over the last few weeks. Have they changed anything in regards to speed and stability on the TV?
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By Torben Rasmussen
#7368 Some. I can still make the X90 that we have sitting on the bench crash. In terms of speed it varies quite a lot depending on how the set is operated. If I start the set using Google Cast things tend to run rather sluggish, but if I do a clean reboot into the home menu and let it sit for a while it responds better. It still feels rather slow compared to e.g. the Shield.
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By Torben Rasmussen
#7410 We didn't touch the contrast setting. Leave it at default.
By doja
#7427 In the review you say: "...since X85C only uses direct LED but not local dimming zones, it is irrelevant. It will never be able to reproduce HDR"
At IFA Sony says that will bring HDR support to X85C via firmware update, so where's the glitch?
User avatar
By Torben Rasmussen
#7432 HDR essentially requires local dimming to yield anything. You cannot boost highlights and dim shadows at the same time using a non-local dimming system. Yes, it will be able to READ the format, but you won't be able to benefit from it.
By bp787
#7466 Thanks for the review. You mentioned some slight issues with the edges in some scenes. A number of owners (myself included) have noticed way more than "slight" discolorations on the edges. We have seen that the edges are often blueish and the problem is exacerbated by the picture mode used. It's very dependent upon which scene is used. I have seen it on three different sets now using the same test videos.

Can you describe in more detail what you were seeing?
By bp787
#7467 Hi again, I'm adding a link to a video clip and picture to show the edge blooming I was speaking of. Would you be able to test this on the x85c?
I'm trying to determine if it's my set or all of them. So far I've seen 2 that do it really terribly and a third that is "ok".

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...leedTest_2.mp4
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...Sony_Vivid.png

Thanks!
User avatar
By Torben Rasmussen
#7472 I can't access the files.
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By pecus
#7482 After reading many sites, I just created an account here because I find this site one of the most well written, professionally executed and very well balanced. Kudos, you are doing great work Rasmus!

I have one question regarding your Sony X85C review (more appropriately, this particular TV, as I am interested in the 55" model).

Sony claims this TV is indeed HDR compatible: (see mid page in their product page here http://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/telev ... 00c-series), which is quite strange as it does neither employs a 10bit panel nor the X-tended Dynamic Range feature of higher end models. The lack of these feature supports your statement that this TV is not HDR compatible.

What gives? Can the X85C really support HDR or not?
By lgilsonj
#7491 This TV looks great, but I would like to see the differences between the model you guys tested to the 55 inches. I don't know if the calibration settings would work so well, sice the smaller model has edge led not local dimming.

And maybe that's the reason why in some places they say this model can reproduce HDR, since HDR need local dimming the 65 and 75 inches maybe be able to do that, but not the 55 inches model.
By preferreduser
#7493 I bought a Sony XBR 55X850C ( 85C outside of USA ) on Nov 28 2015 at B.B. for my personal & BR space to replace a 2 yr old 40" Sony .

The new 55X850C was made (or assembled) in Sept 2015 in Mexico .

I ran the latest firmware update the same day I bought the set and put it up on a full motion wall mount with a 6500K white ambient back light LED strip on the back of the set a few days later after I decided it was a keeper.

FWiW its definitely a wide color gamut set with Sony's Triluminous panel and gets plenty bright for most rooms in daylight on standard and some of the other picture modes .

It needs tweaking out of the box. I maxed out the back light (brightness on these sets ) and contrast in all the picture modes and turned off the back light sensor and all the energy saver ,noise reduction and motion settings and I keep the color saturation between 49-55 depending and sharpness at 50 and reality creation on manual at 20 on the slider .
Black level ( brightness ) on other sets should be at 50 that will get you reference .016 black .

I used AVS HD 709 calibration patterns for some of the settings including brightness and sharpness and white clipping ( contrast. )

It has good picture detail ,shadow detail good contrast / blacks ,improved Sony Color and great upscaling .

You can Google or otherwise search for " AVS HD 709 " for the free mp4 or DVD calibration image downloads . there are some basic instructions there also .

720p or 1080p upscaled to 4K 20160p with the new Sony X-1 processor looks great and better than 720p /1080p respectively.


With recent firmware updates the Sony 55X850C and the other X850C 's play Amazon Prime HDR & HDR bt2020 & P3 DCI demo downloads and 4K Y.T. WCG & 4K videos well .

It automatically switches to HDR mode if it detects HDR 10 met data it has HDCP 2.2 & wideband HDMI 2.0a . It also has HDR user selectable HDR picture mode and P3 DCI and BT2.2020 color space modes .

Presumably It's not 1000 or 600 Nits bright HDR like some of the other more expensive HDR ready sets but it's otherwise not bad at all under controlled lighting and has a demonstrably better picture with good HDR content with noticeably more color and dynamic range across the board than 8 bit bt709 UHD 4K or 2K HD .

IMO HDR on this set is better under controlled lighting or in dark rooms to take advantage of the dynamic range but it looks good in average room light also .

FWIW with a basic watt meter in series with the AC mains the TV's wattage use goes up about ~ X3 when its playing HDR even with a maximum backlight setting so it's likely screwing up the back ceiling significantly for HDR .

All in all within it price range and even above it to a point I think it's a very good buy .
By preferreduser
#7494
lgilsonj wrote:This TV looks great, but I would like to see the differences between the model you guys tested to the 55 inches. I don't know if the calibration settings would work so well, sice the smaller model has edge led not local dimming.

And maybe that's the reason why in some places they say this model can reproduce HDR, since HDR need local dimming the 65 and 75 inches maybe be able to do that, but not the 55 inches model.



Try these :

Here are my 55X850C setting preferences with some AVS HD709 visual aids also [black level ] is at ref black .016 and white clipping at ~ 258 on a bt709 color space *results can vary with content /day nite and set to set ) YMMV .


***Picture Adjustment menu : ***

Picture mode [Standard] or [Vivid] mostly [standard] * my preferences*

Auto Picture Mode [off]

Brightness ( back light ) [ 49 or max ] * my preference *

Color[44 - 54] depending on content/color space and picture modes 50 is usually all around decent .

Light Sensor [off]


****Advanced Settings Menu ****

**Adv . Brightness menu***

Brightness ( same as above )

Contrast ( white level ) [max]

Gamma [-1] ( balance the difference between light and dark + shadow detail ) 0 to -2 are usually decent * here .

Black level ( 49 -54 )... depending 50 is usually decent .

Black adjust [ High] *my preference*

Adv. contrast enhancer [off]


***Adv. Color Menu ***

Color : (same as Above 44-54 )

Hue [0] to [G7] depending on flesh tones O pushes red a little on *this set * YMMV.



Keep in mind on * 2015 Sony sets* the controls are actually labeled *correctly* :

Contrast = White level , Brightness = Back Light and Black level does just what it says .


Color temp : [Warm] most accurate IMO [ Neutral] more vivid can push blue > set how you like it on various content .


Color Space : usually sRGB/BT.709 or or P3 DCI (some film and digital movies ) or BT2020 ( HDR etc.) depending on content most regular TV /DVD /BD are sRGB/BT.709 or you can put it on Auto.
it will usually pick the right one .

Live Color [off] or my preference [ med ]

***Adv Clarity Menu ****

Sharpness : [ 49- 50 ] verified with AVS HD 709 test patterns here for *this set*

Reality Creation : [ Manual ]

Resolution : [Min] or up to [ 20- 25 ] is fine I have mine at 20 .

Mastered in 4K : [ on ] probably content defendant and it may auto switch as needed or not ?


Random Noise reduction [off]

Digital noise reduction [off]

Motion flow [off] or [true cinema]

Smoothness [1 or 2]

Clearness: [min]

Cine motion [high]


** In Vivid & Standard picture modes for bt709 SAT /HDMI input
I have 3 pt RGB gains at [max ] and 3 pt RGB Bias all at [0] **

You can also adj. the (basic) 3 pt RGB gain a little to preference . YMMV

**** for 10 pt Gamma outside of using a colorimeter refer to rtings .com ,this review article or reset to defaults . **** On any set 10 pt gamma and 10 pt white balance and 10pt RGB calibration results are usually set specific and best done with a colorimeter and appropriate skills or done by a professional ISF or THX certified calibrator depending on your skill levels etc. .


Disclaimer:

I'm not an expert and * this is not a measured calibration with a colorimeter * these are my preferences and results using AVS HD 709 visual aids and just watching program material YMMV.

Usually no two sets and rooms are exactly the same.☻☻


*** make sure all power saving settings are [off] also in seeings /screen set to 1:1 pixel mapping [full pixel] on all the inputs and verify with a scaling /over scan test pattern unless you have the unusual STB that needs a -1 setting


Use an overscan/underscan pattern like this one from AVS here :

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...can+underscan+

Good luck FWIW mine is much better than it was outta the box
Last edited by preferreduser on 11 Dec 2015, 19:08, edited 1 time in total.
By preferreduser
#7495
gilsonj wrote:

This TV looks great, but I would like to see the differences between the model you guys tested to the 55 inches. I don't know if the calibration settings would work so well, sice the smaller model has edge led not local dimming.

And maybe that's the reason why in some places they say this model can reproduce HDR, since HDR need local dimming the 65 and 75 inches maybe be able to do that, but not the 55 inches model.


X850C ( X85C) 55" and other size X850C ,X85C models and some of the other Sonys have basically the same processing video boards HDCP 2.2 and HDMI 2.0a specs and HDR ready capabilities across the board only the panels differ specifically in the X850C ,X85C sizes and none of them have full array local dimming which is debatable on HDR* to a point * anyway and not in the official HDR 10 requirement standards .

FWIW the VA panel in the X850C and presumably the others can go blacker than black and whiter than white and I suspect they can dynamically manipulate that *to a certain extent* in HDR mode .

I've read someone at Sony or in the field alluded to some sort of minimum back light / edge light area /zone dimming manipulation ( but not FALD ) and maybe only in HDR modes in the 85C models . I haven't verified that though so .........


pecus wrote:After reading many sites, I just created an account here because I find this site one of the most well written, professionally executed and very well balanced. Kudos, you are doing great work Rasmus!

I have one question regarding your Sony X85C review (more appropriately, this particular TV, as I am interested in the 55" model).

Sony claims this TV is indeed HDR compatible: (see mid page in their product page here http://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/telev ... 00c-series), which is quite strange as it does neither employs a 10bit panel nor the X-tended Dynamic Range feature of higher end models. The lack of these feature supports your statement that this TV is not HDR compatible.

What gives? Can the X85C really support HDR or not?




The X850C's across the board may well have 10 bit panels or 8 bit + high frc
dither to 10 bit panels . (basically the same thing as 10 bit native with today's panels .) Keep in mind all LCD panels dither up from 256 colors anyway .

Some panel manufacturers no longer make that +high frc 2 bit dither distinction because they work so well .

A sony rep was quoted on AVS forums as stating they were all 10 bit panels and I can attest IMO the 55X850C here is better with smoother color gradations on the test patterns and less color banding and better grey scaling than any 8 bit LCD panel I've ever seen and I have 5 TV's Including a Samsung 64f8500 Plasma and 4 PC screens . I got (lucky ) a good panel in this set .

With recent firmware updates the Sony 55X850C and the other X850C 's play Amazon Prime HDR & HDR bt2020 & P3 DCI demo downloads and 4K Y.T. WCG & 4K videos well .

It automatically switches to HDR mode if it detects HDR 10 met data it has HDCP 2.2 & wideband HDMI 2.0a . It also has HDR user selectable HDR picture mode and P3 DCI and BT2.2020 color space modes .

Presumably It's not 1000 or 600 Nits bright HDR like some of the other more expensive HDR ready sets but it's otherwise not bad at all under controlled lighting and has a demonstrably better picture with good HDR content with noticeably more color and dynamic range across the board than 8 bit bt709 UHD 4K or 2K HD .

IMO HDR on this set is better under controlled lighting or in dark rooms to take advantage of the dynamic range but it looks good in average room light also .

FWIW on a brief test with the Life of Pi HDR Bt2020 demo file with a basic watt meter in series with the AC mains the TV's wattage use goes up about ~ X3 when its playing HDR even with a maximum backlight setting so it's likely screwing up the back light wattage ceiling significantly for HDR .
It's been said Sony has been limiting the back lights maximum on these sets with Bt709 8 bit content anyway to preserve black levels so it all makes sense .