Why 24fps is not enough for HDR movies

[Rasmus Larsen]

The Sony HX929 (in the US9 / HX920 (in EU) review is now online. HX929 is Sony's flagship model with LED local dimming, 3D, Bravia Internet Smart TV, USB recording an much more.
Full review here:
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php? ... 1309426126

If you have questions please use this thread.

Enjoy

[westa6969]

While I deeply appreciate your thorough reviews I cannot stand by and let you flaunt your bias toward Plasma and the Panny VT-30 or any other puke plasma. For those of us that have large windows and bright sunny rooms that owned Plasma is a piece of useless garbage to keep it polite and are you blind?

Have you ever tried to view a dark video game or movie on a plasma in daytime with it's 85% daytime washout and it's 24/7 mirror reflections and it's URINATED on dirty WHITES? Why is it that not a single reviewer ever points out these flaws of Panny Plasma to your viewers and you go on an on when in such an environ they are GARBAGE! I once bought a Panny Plasma following pundits on AVSForum and what a piece of useless garbage and I took a $500 loss to get it out of my house. Don't you view in the daylight or have homes with tall windows over there.

You brag on about their Blacks but their whites look like someone peed on them or dirty gray ocean wake in the Carribean is nonsense = been there and they are bright blinding WHITE just as the snow in Vermont Skiing and on a plasma it's dirty yellow/gray that lost a detergent challenge.

Just why is it you guys are always in denial of realistic viewing in this day and age of luxury homes with tall arched windows and PLASMA'S DAYTIME DULL PQ SHORTCOMINGS!!! Plasma BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ anyone?

You analyzed the Sony HX929 and showed it's shortcomings and you use Plasma as the bar yet it fails to meet any HT viewing bar in a bright sunny room or it's reflections showing the inventory of my room at night suck, yet you fail to mention the Plasma shortcomings that can be HUGE and make viewing next to impossible and anything but enjoyable! Every review you post you use the plasma's as the bar and yet their inherent flaws in a bright sunny room make me want to place one below a urinal not my HT. Plasma is not the bar for anything during daytime viewing and who can stand viewing your rooms inventory at night staring back at you, yet you flaunt them as the HT Bar in virtually all your reviews.

That lacks credibility to post that in denial of daytime viewing conditions and these are precisely why LCD blows away plasma in sales today despite plasma being a better value for one's dollar per inch - I wouldn't take one for FREE - the lemmings can follow your VT-30 advice. .

[maxmal23]

Rasmus Larsen for when the review of Panasonic DT30?

[marco]

While I deeply appreciate your thorough reviews I cannot stand by and let you flaunt your bias toward Plasma and the Panny VT-30 or any other puke plasma. For those of us that have large windows and bright sunny rooms that owned Plasma is a piece of useless garbage to keep it polite and are you blind?

Have you ever tried to view a dark video game or movie on a plasma in daytime with it's 85% daytime washout and it's 24/7 mirror reflections and it's URINATED on dirty WHITES? Why is it that not a single reviewer ever points out these flaws of Panny Plasma to your viewers and you go on an on when in such an environ they are GARBAGE! I once bought a Panny Plasma following pundits on AVSForum and what a piece of useless garbage and I took a $500 loss to get it out of my house. Don't you view in the daylight or have homes with tall windows over there.

You brag on about their Blacks but their whites look like someone peed on them or dirty gray ocean wake in the Carribean is nonsense = been there and they are bright blinding WHITE just as the snow in Vermont Skiing and on a plasma it's dirty yellow/gray that lost a detergent challenge.

Just why is it you guys are always in denial of realistic viewing in this day and age of luxury homes with tall arched windows and PLASMA'S DAYTIME DULL PQ SHORTCOMINGS!!! Plasma BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ anyone?

You analyzed the Sony HX929 and showed it's shortcomings and you use Plasma as the bar yet it fails to meet any HT viewing bar in a bright sunny room or it's reflections showing the inventory of my room at night suck, yet you fail to mention the Plasma shortcomings that can be HUGE and make viewing next to impossible and anything but enjoyable! Every review you post you use the plasma's as the bar and yet their inherent flaws in a bright sunny room make me want to place one below a urinal not my HT. Plasma is not the bar for anything during daytime viewing and who can stand viewing your rooms inventory at night staring back at you, yet you flaunt them as the HT Bar in virtually all your reviews.

That lacks credibility to post that in denial of daytime viewing conditions and these are precisely why LCD blows away plasma in sales today despite plasma being a better value for one's dollar per inch - I wouldn't take one for FREE - the lemmings can follow your VT-30 advice. .

Aggressive post! But to the point: I agree that Plasma's have reflection problems, not all to the same degree by the way. But so do many of the modern LCD screens as well. Notably the high-end Sony LCD's like the HX929.

[macshee]

The front of the HX929 is NOT PLEXIGLASS. It's Gorilla Glass.

http://www.corning.com/news_center/news ... 51901.aspx

[sinistro]

First thx for the review Rasmus

and second Marco( and westa) I think you wrong here. I have both in my house plasma and some lcd and even that I have the cheapest LG 50'' 2010 model its better then the 40'' sony lcd that almost did cost twice as much and has way more imperfections then that cheap LG plasma.

I also had a panasonic plasma and I was not happy with that one but I seen the VT20 and the VT30 and that was a total different level and way better then the G15 I had so I can see that the VT30 is used for a reverence as it has a very good price/quality relation and your problem with having large windows and bright sunny room does not make plasmas useless garbage as it only limits you in the choice of the products and technology offered.
Not every one is living in a luxury home with tall arched windows and you try to watch an lcd in a dark room you will have a nice clouded and flashlighting blacks with little details in the dark areas and blurings when anything moves faster then walking.

The perfect tv does not exist !! So let us please stop this plasma vs lcd crap now as for some one technology is better suited then for another.

Now this sony HX929 is in my opinion to expensive for the quality it offers but this counts for many of sony products, I see similar quality from other makes for less money in almost any shop.
What is the sense of having full led backlighting with local dimming when you dont have enough zones you can control? It better then edge leds with partial local dimming I guess but is it worth the difference of the price tag?

[matt]

While I deeply appreciate your thorough reviews I cannot stand by and let you flaunt your bias toward Plasma and the Panny VT-30 or any other puke plasma. For those of us that have large windows and bright sunny rooms that owned Plasma is a piece of useless garbage to keep it polite and are you blind?

I have a plasma in a bright sunny room with large windows and have no problems. So don't talk for all of us. Instead of spewing your anger, could you just please tell us which TV you recommend?

[Rasmus Larsen]

While I deeply appreciate your thorough reviews I cannot stand by and let you flaunt your bias toward Plasma and the Panny VT-30 or any other puke plasma. For those of us that have large windows and bright sunny rooms that owned Plasma is a piece of useless garbage to keep it polite and are you blind?

You are right that plasma TVs in general have problems in brightly lit rooms but not to the this extreme extend. You are criticizing us for doing exactly what? You are talking about a LCD model with a glass front here (HX929), which makes your arguments seem somewhat contradictive. I understand that you are a LCD proponent but the paradox is that your are failing to take an objective stance, while at the same time blaming us for not doing so.

In my opinion some LCD/LED models with glass front are far worse in brightly lit rooms that most plasma TVs. You are entitled to have your own opinion but please keep your head cool.

[Rasmus Larsen]

The front of the HX929 is NOT PLEXIGLASS. It's Gorilla Glass.

http://www.corning.com/news_center/news ... 51901.aspx

You are right, indeed.

[Rasmus Larsen]

Now this sony HX929 is in my opinion to expensive for the quality it offers but this counts for many of sony products, I see similar quality from other makes for less money in almost any shop.
What is the sense of having full led backlighting with local dimming when you dont have enough zones you can control? It better then edge leds with partial local dimming I guess but is it worth the difference of the price tag?

I agree very much. My point is that if you compare HX929 to for example Panasonic VT30 or LG's LE8500 from 2010, Sony simply offers too little value. The price is too high despite the steep price drop from last year's HX909 model.

[itfreak]

Hi Rasmus, thanks for your reviews...i am on the way to buy either the Sony HX929 or the Samsung D8000....which one would you prefer due to picture quality or features? Thanks!

[lmarion]

In your review settings the "Adv. Contrast Enhancer" was set to "Off" .

I have read in amazon website that
"Part of the cinematic drama in film-making comes from details found in shadows and dark areas of the picture. Sony’s Advanced Contrast Enhancer (ACE)n uses real-time image processing to dynamically adjust backlight levels for improved contrast without masking details the filmmaker intended you to see. ACE delivers deep blacks in darker scenes, as well as fine details in shadows and other dark areas of the picture for a difference you can truly see."

What changes if you set this setting to on? Can you describe overall differences in shadows and color?
I am thinking of buying this TV but lack of shadow detailing which you've mentioned in your review is eating my mind.

Thanks

[oldstylee]

I personally agree with a majority of the review....... Though I'll tell you this, if you watch new or old home movies (especially from flip or bloggie type devices), low quality youtube videos, or any of the apps that bring you webisodes directly to your TV the HX929 will smoke the VT models all day long. The Super Bitmapping is no joke my friends. I'll admit the Samsung D8000 and D7000 LEDs do a mighty fine job clearing up some of the nasty video feeds. Could be true for the plasma versions too but I have yet to test them side by side.

Though I do find some of what the original poster said to be true as well. Some of the comparisons are pretty off skew. In the review for the HX729 he compared it to the D8000 and its priced less than the D7000 on most weeks. Also, since the middle of November the 55" HX929 has been priced from $2900 to $2700 which is fairly similar to the Samsung D8000 LED. Plus there is the 55" HX820 which has been seen for $2000 with 2 glasses at various retailers. Which I find extremely competitive.

Notice how I'm not referencing any LG models? I'm only speaking for my self but from my experience in the field the 2011 models are a joke. Though people who buy a TV based on cheap 3D glasses that they will rarely use deserve to own a sub par TV. You never here about the extra films and layers LG adds to enhance the passive 3D while taking away from the 2D picture. To be truthful. Ive always have a bias again manufactures that make insane amounts of different models of many different qualities. I understand Samsung falls into that category but not nearly to the extreme of LG.

[talkinboutshaft]

In the review, you say of the hx929

"Input lag was measured to 30 ms without MotionFlow. That is too high for serious FPS console gaming"

However, when I look at the recommended tvs for gaming, many have similar or worse input lag. For example, the PZ950 review says of that model

"Input lag was measured to 30-35 ms, making PZ950 a fine TV for gaming purposes such as console gaming"



Is this a typo?

[Bandit]

I'd like to put my 2 cents in on screen reflections/mirroring of the high end glossy screens. I bought the Sharp 60" U835 in Nov 2011, sold my 52" XBR4 to older bro with my wall mount, my new Sharp sat on my 3t high console for over a week until my new Telihook wall mount came in. I was so dissapointed with the reflections in my open living area night or day, during the day I could see through my kitchen window 30' away to the neighbor's bricks outside their home~Grrrr!!

Well the mount finally came in, we mounted the TV about 3/4 up on an 8ft wall, angled down about 10-20 degrees downward so I could see sitting on my sofa 8ft away or standing in the kitchen 25ft away.
WOW, what a difference... like any mirror you angle down, you're going to lose anything on it's 0 degree plane, I say I went from total refections to 95% reflection free. And of couse angling your home TV is not the same as looking at a TV in Best Buy 10' up angled down slightly... so mount it/angle it down and don't worry about it after that!!

Thanks,
Bandit