Why 24fps is not enough for HDR movies

[Flatpanels]

Our review of Sony X85E (XE85 in Europe) is online. It is a mid-range 4K TV with HDR support and Android TV. Sony has switched back to a VA LCD panel.
Link: http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php? ... 1495007874

Note that the TV is available as XE8505, XE8577, XE8588, XE8599, XE8596, and possible by other names in Europe

If you have questions please use this thread.

Enjoy.

[Rasmus Larsen]

People sometimes ask me if modern LED based LCD TVs still use PWM to modulate the backlight brightness level. Some people perceive PWM as very high-frequency flicker similar to flicker on CRT and plasma TVs.

Sony X85E does not appear to be using PWM. The photo is taken at 1/15 s exposure time.

[franco.bluto]

EDIT + update :

Sony Bravia X85E (X850E) spec wise looks like a reincarnated VA panel edge lit ,edge bleeding frame dimming 2015 55 X850C not a bad thing priced right or bad up to 4K SDR TV if it holds up to the 2015 X85E noting the 2016 X850D (X85D) was a fail ( IPS panel) but it ain't no USA 2016 QDOT/SUHD Samsung UN55 KS 8000 /800D I have in here to replace my bricked Sony 55X850C for $0.00 on my extended warranty .


I repaired the 55 UN X850C PSU/LD board level problems and put in a new salvage mainboard and LED bar in the panel and a firmware load and it's like new for ~$175.00 ,

The Sony is doing well on a less severe duty cycle in the family cinema room now replacing a decent 4 yr old 1080p Samsung plasma that didn't buzz and they like the Sony LCD fine and it ain't bad at all up to 4K SDR and Triluminos color but not much for HDR given it's only a 420 NIT panel and not a retina searing Samsung KS 8000 /800D or Sony UN 55 X930E .

My May 2017 NIB retina searing QDOT SUHD Samsung UN 55 KS 8000 binned for a Samsung direct FA01 panel is in the inner sanctum here on the full motion wall mount with a nice all total 977 watt 5.1 system including 4 decent ELAC B6 speakers anchored by a heavyweight all metal Sony ES 7,1 AVR that can get clean THX pro 5.1/7.1 @ 115dB -20dB or more all day at 10-15 feet or 5m . from the TV in here with the included 6dB of room gain /cabin gain in a confined space .


Costco distribution is where I asked to get my replacement TV and where they shipped it from for my specific new Samsung FA01 panel code binned Samsung KS 8000/800D TV from the warranty co.

As outhouse luck would have it I was buying that 2016 Samsung UN 55 KS 8000 /800D for this room within 2 weeks of the 2015 Sony UN 55 X850C frying itself and the Sony was going where is now anyway

[Kuschelmonschter]

X85E spec wise and test looks like a reincarnated VA panel Sony edge lit frame dimming X850C

X850C was directly lit though...

X850C: VA Direct LED
X85D: IPS Edge LED
X85E: VA Edge LED

This new Samsung 55 KS XXXX TV and QDOT ultra Black Samsung FA01 panel takes it all up several levels from my Sony 55X850C and then some ,it's also WAY better at CATV /SAT TV *DirecTV here and smart TV and it is much thinner and nicer too ,the Tizen platform in general and voice search is terrific compared to unstable and slow android TV in the Sonys (when Android works in them )

Live TV and Smart TV functionality is indeed awful on Sony Android TV, also see my review.

[Rasmus Larsen]

I think X850C is actually still slightly ahead in picture quality. The picture quality score should reflect that. Over the last few years, the 85 series has not really moved forward in any significant way. One point to make here is also that X93E actually was a decent improvement over X93D because of the improved zone-dimming system.

As kuschelmonschter points out, Android TV still has many problems. His write-up is very thorough so I can recommend it. Despite X85E having a faster chip and despite the software tweaks since X85D was released I actually gave it the same score in functionality. There are still issues, the speakers are worse (also included in our functionality score), and the TV SideView app is dead...

[Rasmus Larsen]

I can maybe also add that I have spent some time with the new user interface in Android O. I expect it to be rolled out on Sony TVs later (no confirmation from Sony yet, though). Here is a first look video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO-Gy6XPVco

[Kuschelmonschter]

O is indeed a lot of what I imagined Android TV to be from the beginning. Powerful voice search and control and putting the content front and center on the home screen, not apps. Ditching the useless recommendations row is also a good thing. Hopefully Sony can't hook up the useless Featured apps anymore either.

Will be interesting whether Sony puts O on their ATV1 plattform as well (2015 and early 2016 models). Think O will become the first Android TV version that will be be fun to use. Whether this will also be true for Sony's integration of O is totally different story though.

[Rasmus Larsen]

I'll try to get a comment from Sony regarding Android O this coming week. It runs quite well on the Nexus Player so hopefully it can run even on the first Sony Android TVs.

Here's also Google's official presentation from I/O 2017 of the new UI / features: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMB9B6Z__bM

[Kuschelmonschter]

Nexus Player is based on a 1.8GHz quad core Atom. Suppose this is a different league compared to the MediaTek MT5890 with dual core A17 running at 1 GHz. Google states though that their focus was to have O running smoothly on even the slowest HW. Whatever that means.

[Rasmus Larsen]

Sony got back to me with a "no comment". I don't think we should rule anything out yet. I think it's just to early for them to comment.

[Kuschelmonschter]

That was to be expected. Guess this will be a topic at next CES the earliest...

[franco.bluto]

X85E spec wise and test looks like a reincarnated VA panel Sony edge lit frame dimming X850C

X850C was directly lit though...

X850C: VA Direct LED
X85D: IPS Edge LED
X85E: VA Edge LED

noooooo 2015 55X850C 10 bit Sony Triluminos panel = edge lit,edge bleeding frame dimming Cheap semi gloss too narrow view even for a VA panel, and only 420 NIT VA panel as these things go (Samsung PVA LCD CELL) , LED bar gets way too hot also and crappy low intensity /shadow details and low level black details and meh Live /CATV ch. content processing even with my conforming electronic calibrations
[/b]
65X850C /75X850C = REAR backlight & better Samsung direct LCD panel or LCD panel cell maybe just frame dimming but a better panel all around ,

Any X850C/D/E ~420 NIT panel is nothing much for it's HDR or beyond a decent 4K SDR Sony Triluminos color mid range 10 bit LCD panel TV (maybe 8 bit + frc in 2017) but OK 4K SDR TV and probably better than a similar TCL and so on or some 4K SDR 8 bit TV's

2015 Sony 810 C 4K SDR maybe 8bit + frc and a pitifully not bright : 265 cd/m2) panel were all REAR backlight frame dimming cheap & Sony Andoid TV rubbish but maybe bt709 8 bit Triluminos was its one and only plausible feature outside of a much better + way brighter Samsung 4K SDR TV

Long and short of it none of The X850C/D/E can not touch a 2015 Samsung SUHD JS 8000/8500 and likewise cant touch a 2016 Samsung UN KS 8000 like mine or its sibling UE KS 7000 or better noting they are a model tier or two above an X850C to X850E with flagship QDOT retina searing mayne Samsung or AUO ultra black glossy panels and flagship TV model tier & video processing not mid range Sony rubbish .

2017 Samsung Q9 + Somy X930E are closer to 2016 Samsung KS 8000-9000 US /KS 7000 -8000 UE than other models

Only reason I bought my Sony UN 55 X850C or any Sony X850C was that it was significantly cheaper than a significantly better + brighter Samsung JS 8000/8500 back then and you need a 2017 Sony X930E or just get a 2016 Samsung UN KS 8000 - UE KS 7000 and call it a day noting at least the 2016 -2017 the Samsung's process TV broadcast and cable channel content way better than any Sony TV

[richienko]

Will you provide calibration settings for HDR please?

[Rasmus Larsen]

We don't calibrate for HDR yet. The industry first needs to come to agreement before we can offer a good guideline.

[alan3simms]

Hi,

I have a question about this TV specifically XE-8596 , i purchased one December of 2017 at the time it was markted by several if not all of the retailers as a true 10bit (not 8bit +dithering) with a 120Hz panel, now i i believe even on the Sony Uk site(that info has now disappeared).
Now it seems that this is marketed by atleast one retailer (who previously marketed it as above)as a 8bit+FRC and a 100Hz TV.is it a true 10bit 120hz or the lower spec panel?

I would be keen to know your thoughts on this , as My TV has been giving me a lot of problems (dead pixles , backlight bleed , system erros, remote not responding etc..)I wonder if there is any thing lurking that Sonyhaven't told us .

Thanks